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No, for me it really needs to end on Ralph thinking, this is kind of beautiful. Ralph in his room, all you hear is the hum of the fluorescent light, his breath, he’s sequestered, there’s no sunlight, no life coming in. It’s really oppressive, claustrophobic. Suddenly the shutters open. Light comes back in. Then he hears laughter. He realizes, oh, the right person has been selected to be pope. There’s a smile on his face: this is the right thing for the future of the church. His boss accepted it, so why question it? Everything that Carlos says makes complete rational sense. This is part of his physicality. We elected him. Why would that change anything?
I had seen an old black and white photograph of three nuns walking through Rome. And I thought that should be our last shot. We shot this in a studio, and I showed the photo to Ralph and said, “This is what you’re looking at, these three women laughing.” And he said, “Oh, that’s really helpful.” He’s really looking basically at the future of his own institution. That’s really what the end is. It’s not about Benitez. It’s more about letting in a breath of fresh air.
In the film it is said that “the church is not the past. It is what we do next.” Do you imagine what’s next for all of the characters?
We could do a sequel. [laughs] No, I think this is it. But obviously I think he would be a pope of great humility and understanding, furthering the cracks of the institution, bringing more light in.
Do you foresee people within the church finding out about Benitez’s intersex identity, or does that even matter?
It doesn’t matter. To me it really wouldn’t change anything. Still the same pope, and all that matters is how he represents his community and brings other people together. To be honest, probably a lot of the cardinals would be upset or say he cheated, but I don’t care. That’s their problem, not Benitez’s problem.
Do you have that same viewpoint with potentially religious people who may feel cheated by or be outraged about the ending? Are you bracing for backlash?
Not everyone needs to agree with the movie. I love when people disagree and we can have an argument about it, a real lively discussion. This is what Benitez is about—bringing people together, furthering discussion, and not squashing it. So if people disagree with it—which, to be honest, there will be people of course. But I’m not bracing myself, because I do feel that we try to deal with [the reveal] with diligence, sensitivity, and not using it as a plot device or anything. It’s also not a takedown of the church. It really looks at the people of that faith with honesty—trying to understand and serve everyone’s story.
Why does Benitez choose to be called Pope Innocent?
It’s a name of purity without any preconceptions. You see it in children—they have no bad experience, they’re theoretically only positive, only open towards others. They have no prejudices. They’re innocent. Then society conditions them to be a certain way, their parents, school, friends, and bad experiences leave trauma. So Benitez comes to us with absolute openness, and I think that’s what it means.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
